Posted by Dave on Monday Nov 19, 13:03
Why is no paid up liberal democrat prepared to stand up and defent John Leech Christie Hospital issue in public on this forum.
Especially the many Lib Dem Councilors who were in the photographs with him.
And could someone tell us how John Leech is supposed to have resigned from facebook?
I am starting this new thread on behalf of Yasmin, as it is obviously very important that she finds out this information
+ tags coming soon
( 128 Comments )
Alan
Monday Nov 19, 19:42
May I be the first one to post on this thread and congratulate Dave on an excellent idea! Yasmin... blog away!
Dave
Monday Nov 19, 19:50
Why thank you Alan. It was a moment of genius - I don't have them very often!
Dave
Monday Nov 19, 19:53
Please note, that whilst my own grammar and spelling is substandard (I blame Thatcher/Baker partly), it is worth noting that I just cut and pasted the actual question from previous The all singing and all dancing John Leech and Yasmin Zalzara blog/watch/forum/comedy act
Facebook fiend
Monday Nov 19, 20:00
He has "resigned" from Facebook by removing his Facebook page from the internet. this is because he only had two friends
Dave
Monday Nov 19, 20:06
Cool, that is part two answered. Only part one needs answering, and we can move on! Happy campers all round!
Yasmin Zalzala
Monday Nov 19, 20:27
Dear All
Thank you for this initiative.
May I point out that the fact that Cllr John Leech MP resigned from Facebook after matering only 2 friends, raises another question.
Why did the many Liberal Democrats in the city of Manchester and the NorthWest in general sign up as his friends?
Alan
Tuesday Nov 20, 07:51
Seriously, what does it matter how many friend he had on Face Book! Grow up! Perhaps his friends all use MySpace or another online community?? Ever thought of that! Maybe his friends or Liberal Democrats in the constituency don't have a computer, maybe they are not interested in using an online social community??!!
Why don't you start attacking policies, or lack of, as opposed to this nonsense. It's not a story!
Dave
Tuesday Nov 20, 08:50
"friends" on myspace and facebook are a joke! I have a page on both. I have three on facebook, simply because I want my "real" friends as opposed to the nonsense of having a friend I have never spoken to before, or met, or have anything in common other than being on the same social site. As for myspace, I use it for music and have about 50 "friends".
Like Alan stated, it really is a non-story.
However, lets answer part one of your original question. oops, I can't as I have no idea as to why payed up lib dems don't bother with this site. May be it is because they had a look as saw how boring it has become over the past couple of years?
Alan
Tuesday Nov 20, 11:49
Yasmin, why don't you join Facebook and see how many friends you get? Then we can draw comparisons. Furthermore, how do you know it was John Leech who started the site... could have been anyone... even you! All you need is a pic and you can put on what you like!
peter h
Tuesday Nov 20, 13:52
er... what's facebook? why does it matter to you guys? john's an mp, not a nerd. Oh and by the way, the people round here seem to think john's doing a fine job as an mp. He tackles their individual concerns assiduously and the local matters which have mattered to us have all been raised by him. And the figures here that he has spoken in 94 debates and had replies to 113 written questions AND 72% attendance, seems to suggest to me pretty unambiguously that he is applying himself properly to his role as our representative in the house of commons. So, Dave, I'm not quite sure how you or anyone else can say he's not doing his job.
As for this facewhatsit nonsense, I assume lib dems have got better things to do - like representing voters.
Dave
Tuesday Nov 20, 14:33
Peter, I have a 100% turn up rate for my current job so far. Doesn't say anything about me being effective or not. Don't get me wrong, you know me and my views. I supported Leech as a councillor. He was very effective. I didn't give two hoots about the Christies issue. But compared to my new MP, Leech is a lame duck. Again, don't get me wrong, I would still not vote Lucy Powell (unless she decided to become an independent) if I lived in Chorlton still, and I would vote Leech, just to keep Labour out.
I admit Peter, that I have not kept intouch personally with Leech, but how often do you? I have just as much a right to comment in the way that I have, as anyone else. I don't make wild accusations about him.
Alan
Tuesday Nov 20, 15:47
Peter, just because you don't know what Facebook is, it doesn't mean that people who use it are nerds!? You keep going on about attendance rates and how many debates he's spoken in etc but what does that mean.
I could give a presentation to Directors saying that if I do x, y and z it will save you 2 million a year; doesn't mean it is going to happen though!! And to touch on Dave's point, I know alot of people who turn up for work and have a 100% attendance... doesn't mean they've brought their brain with them though!
Labour Supporter
Tuesday Nov 20, 16:09
So, people on Facebook are nerds. Interesting view. Is this an official Lib dem position or just yours. Most of the people under 30 that I know are on Facebook and they are a group of people that politicians need to communicate with. And Dave, really your position is ridiculous. Listen to yourself. Leech is shit but I would vote for him simply because he is not someone else. Is that what democracy is about or is it what the oppositionist Lib Dems finally twist it into?
Dave
Tuesday Nov 20, 18:07
Hello Labour Supporter. Although Leech is "shit" according to you (your words not mine), doesn't mean that he is the lesser of two evils. That said, I quite like some of the Lib Dem policies, so I don't see your point there.
Martin
Tuesday Nov 20, 20:28
I think it is important to remind posters on here that this site was set up by a member of the Executive of the Constituency Labour Party.
Hold John Leech to account? Hardly likely. There was no such forum to hold the previous Labour MP to account.
Would you post on a forum exclusively run by your opponents?
He has his own website.
www.john-leech.co.uk
Alan
Wednesday Nov 21, 09:27
Martin, incorrect, he has a website that is merely a bolt on to the lib dem site. Pretty poor considering the massive impact that effective media exploitation through the medium of websites etc has on the general public.
Furthemore you point out that there was no forum to hold the previous Labour MP to account.... thats because no one set one up!!?? No one was stopping you Martin just as they are not stopping you from setting up 'Lucy Powell Watch'??
Tim Kinsella
Wednesday Nov 21, 11:36
LS, I'm under 30...I'm only just over 20!
Going to Glastonbury and being on Facebook doesn't make me want to vote for anyone. End of story.
Labour Supporter
Wednesday Nov 21, 13:29
I didn't say it would make you vote for anyone? And why is the end of the story. Cos you say so? Thats not debate. I think that an MP should use all the means at their disposal to communicate with their voters and john leech has a shit website which is just a bit of an add on of someone elses and doesn't know how to use Fcaebook and admits that he is " a bit of a novice when it comes to computers". he's an MP he's in the communication business. Computers are a major tool of communication. he has all the support he needs to learn how to use computers. God knows he claims enough expenses. It's not goog enough. an MP saying he is "a bit of a novice when it comes to computers" is like a bus driver saying "I am a bit of a novice when it come to driving". It's nonsense. Not the end of the story. Anyone can agree or disagree.
Alan
Wednesday Nov 21, 16:38
The didn't have computers during WW2; doe this therefore mean that Winston Churchill or indeed any other MP during the time was not able to communicate effectively??! Once again LS, you're talking a load of BS!
peter h
Wednesday Nov 21, 23:18
and I still don't know what facebook is. Or care.
Thomas
Thursday Nov 22, 00:08
Just to add, I have never been a member of the executive of the CLP.
Alan
Thursday Nov 22, 10:41
Peter, it's a social networking site that you cna add your friends on and exchange pics, messages etc. Essentially it's a way to keep in touch with people you went to school or uni with and indeed anyone else you wish to add to the list.
You can access it on a computer or over your phone.... it is also exceptionally addictive!
Tim Kinsella
Thursday Nov 22, 12:17
"Most of the people under 30 that I know are on Facebook and they are a group of people that politicians need to communicate with."
Ok, so she's "communicating with me" like that survey I got. Generally, in the Labour Party, that means "vote for me". (I'm still waiting for a reply about whether she actually supported the war or not).
Also, you do yourself no favours by claiming that he doesn't know how to communicate. This is the problem for Labour in Manchester (and across the country). It's never easy to point out your own faults and others' strengths but generally that's the only way you'll actually win anything. It would be far better were you to admit that Labour have done certain things wrong and the Lib Dems have done certain things right then to learn from this experience (I feel like I'm counselling). Instead you spend all your time talking about how "John Leech ransacked a small orphanage in Africa at gun point to pay for the illegal Christie hoax leaflets which were full of pictures of kittens being slaughtered. He then took them to the hospital and threatened dying cancer patients with baseball bats until they took them and promised to vote for him" (even though the vast majority don't live in the constituency).
Alan
Thursday Nov 22, 14:22
http://www.southmanchesterreporter.co.uk/news/s/1025445_bingo_residents_halt_casino_plan
Just goes to prove that Leech is merely a cllr and not an MP. Get a grip John and concentrate on important things!!! This isn't what taxpayers fork out in excess og £70k p.a. to have you for!
Labour Supporter
Thursday Nov 22, 14:52
Tim - Leech is a lair and a dud. Everyone knows it. If I might just remind you this forum is called John Leech Watch not Labour Watch or Lucy Powell Watch or aren't Labour Shit Watch. If you want a forum like that why don't you set one up. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. You lecture people about how they should campaign, communicate, think, behave, react and I'm not sure what qualifies you to do this. Are you a genius? And for the record I have no idea what the Lib Dems stand for so how you can judge whether they have done things right or not is beyond me.
Alan
Thursday Nov 22, 16:23
LS, you've just very accurately described yourself! Except you missed out key phrases such as brain dead and cretin!
peter h
Thursday Nov 22, 17:43
Maybe I'm missing a point here, but I think that any MP, IRRESPECTIVE of party, who manages to attend 70+% parliamentary debates, speaking in over 90 of them, tables 100+ written questions, in addition to dealing with day to day constituency matters , and in addition to being very active on the ground in his local constituency supporting local issues, is a VERY active and effective MP.
I suspect that he is way above average in all the fields above.
Just to put it into context. If the average number of speeches for MPs in the house was 90, there would have been 60 000 speeches made since the election. If the average number of written question were 113 there would have been 72000 written questions.
Somehow I doubt the average is anything like that high.
Therefore, by definition, John's performance is above average numerically. His performance in terms of effectiveness is a matter of opinion, not measurable fact.
Maybe somebody could tell us what the averages are for written questions and speeches per MP?
You may not like him, or his policies or his politics or his tactics, but nobody can accuse him of being ineffectual, because he isnt. I am normally a Labour supporter, but I think he's a bloody good MP
peter h
Thursday Nov 22, 17:44
Alan, I have this old fashioned idea of speaking to friends, and meeting them in the flesh, rather than putting them on my computer. Somehow I don't think facebook's for me. I prefer to get addicted to narcotics. Much more interesting
Tim Kinsella
Thursday Nov 22, 18:37
Can someone confirm that I was just attacked by a labour supporter for hectoring...? Oh the irony.
Labour Supporter
Thursday Nov 22, 20:15
I can accuse him of being ineffectual. Just watch. Here goes. John Leech is ineffectual. And a liar. If he's not ineffectual then he must be effective. So what has he effected or indeed affected? Go on, name one thing.
Labour Supporter
Thursday Nov 22, 20:16
Alan - thanks for that. The crushing weight of the logic of your arguments gets me every time.
Tim Kinsella
Thursday Nov 22, 20:31
I liked the fact that it was such an unusual event when a certain local MP held advice surgeries that it warranted a story in the local paper. That's what an effective MP is Peter! None of this speeches and casework nonsense.
peter h
Thursday Nov 22, 23:16
speeches and casework "nonsense"? odd view of what an mp does
Alan
Friday Nov 23, 09:23
LS - I determine whether or not the audience is worth the effort and as you talk utter bollocks I thought I'd match like for like, like your party you've run out of ideas, policy and brain cells!
Peter - absolutely agree, the problem is though when you work 60-70 hours a week (as I have no doubt you do running your own business) and your friends are scattered all over the country, Facebook is an easy way to keep in touch.
Tim - I would deem speeches and casework as key roles of any politician, especially the casework as this impacts directly on the day to day lives of constituents and, at the end of the day, that is one of the key functions of an MP; to represent the people.
Tim Kinsella
Friday Nov 23, 11:24
Sorry, the sarcasm didn't come across too well.
Labour Supporter
Friday Nov 23, 17:44
Alan- You are the most pompous arse. You really are.
peter h
Friday Nov 23, 18:58
LS youre struggling, aren't you. you can't gainsay the statistical evidence so you just blunder into abuse. youre more intelligent than that, so why sink to it?
give us some reasoned arguments. tell us, for instance, what keith bradley's voting/speech/attendance/written questions/local surgery record was, so we can see how much more diligent he was than john.
Or tell us the average mp's record, so we can see how far john falls below average.
You can't, can you!
John Leech is an exceptionally diligent MP, whether you like his politics or not, and you can't bring any coherent argument against that to the table other than shouting liar over something from 3 years ago.
That really makes john's case for him. As I think you know perfectly well.
sedgey
Friday Nov 23, 22:20
Peter..Peter...Peter. You are at it again.
Of course Leech attends a significant number of votes but that is HIS JOB until Lucy kicks him out. So we shouldn't get over excited about him doing his job.
But the real test are his oral inteventions where he consistently makes a fool of himself and is put down by Labour ministers who can't believe how thick he is.
Oh, and he adds his name to EDMs supporting his old\employer McDonalds...mind you he found his level there.
peter h
Thursday Nov 29, 23:17
and whose judgement is it that he makes a fool of himself? Which impartial observer has voiced this opinion?
And the Labour Ministers to which you refer? Any connection with the ministers connected to illegal party donations this week? Now THAT is what I call thick. Not only do they break their own bloody law, they don't even have the wit to cover their tracks. They're both immoral and stupid.
And if they did not know they were breaking the law, then they are ignorant into the bargain. Not fit for office whichever way you look at it
sedgelypark
Friday Nov 30, 20:22
My opinion and I'm told shared by his own party.
Read the stuff on the top right...boy against proper adults.
Now Peter, once again you show your rock solid Fib Dem colours despite your pathetic 'I'm Labour really and more left wing your people in the Labour Party' nonsense.
I'm not going to justify the dodgy donations which are unacceptable. Stupid yes but you tar all Labour's ministers with the same brush.
But in a classic Fib Dem distortion of ther facts you foget the biggest donation to the Fibs at the last election was given by a fraudster who was banged up and your party has refused to give it back unlike Labour who are going to give it back.
Do Peter it's time to come down off the dodgy moral high ground and answer that.
Even the more morally corrupt (ie Manc Fibs) are staying away from this subject as they have even worse form that labour
Alan
Saturday Dec 01, 15:38
Down with Harriet Harmon!!!
Pedant
Saturday Dec 01, 17:14
Harman.
peter h
Sunday Dec 02, 18:53
amen
Dave
Tuesday Dec 04, 10:13
show me a party that doesn't have dodgy dealings and I would be in utter shock. be it Lib Dems, New Labour, Conservative, BNP, etc
Alan
Tuesday Dec 04, 16:34
Still I'm glad they are getting a thrashing!! All their bloody holier than thou policies and they can't even follow them themselves!!
ex labour
Wednesday Dec 05, 16:52
hurray for John Leech!
Dave
Thursday Dec 06, 10:00
Labour have been holier than thou for years now. Blair built up then destroyed his creation. Tragic really!
Yasmin Zalzala
Friday Dec 07, 01:34
I don't know what you mean by Labour being holier than thou. They have been courting big money for years and were quite open about big donors etc from when they were in opposition.
I think untill we have a cap that is enforceable on how much politicians can spend then rich people will always have a hold on politics.
Oh and I am still waiting for Cllr John MP to provid documentary (or any evidence) to support his Christie Hospital Closure campaign.
Dave
Friday Dec 07, 10:04
Yasmin, I am still waiting for WMD to turn up in Iraq. I don't think me or you will ever see the information that we both want, but at least the information you are waiting for didn't kill thousands of Iraq women and children, nor did it destroy schools, hospitals, roads, waterworks, sewer systems, nor did it increase the threat of violence to the general population. Whoopee, we got rid of an evil dictator, but is one man worth all of the above and more?
Yasmin Zalzala
Saturday Dec 08, 18:33
Dave Are you defending the Christie Hospital Hoax campaign?
May be you should leave it to the counillor MP to defend himself (surely he can do that?) This does not require knowledge with IT.
If he is unable to respond, then may be the many councilors who appeared in the leaflet 'to save Christie Hospital' could tell us what they knew.
These include (from memory, I could be wrong) Cllr Dr David Sandiford, Cllr Helen Fisher, Cllr Iain Donaldson, Cllr Alison Firth and many more
Dave
Sunday Dec 09, 22:08
Yasmin, I am not defending it, I am merely putting it into perspective. We have far bigger things to worry about in this world other than some lie that Leech made a couple of years ago, that didn't cost much money, certainly didn't cost the life of anyone, and something that is only being drawn out by resentful Labour supporters and a few bitter non-labour supporters.
Dave
Sunday Dec 09, 22:09
Yes it was dodgy game play, but no more dodgy than having Keith Bradley slipped in the back door into Parliament via the House of Lords! And we call that democracy!?!?!
Alan
Sunday Dec 09, 22:29
Yasmin the more you post, the more i am convinced you are learning impaired. Dave- im with you on an elected house of lords... .however, if any one deserved a peerage it was keith bradley!
Dave
Monday Dec 10, 09:29
Alan, whilst I agree Keith Bradley made a good MP, I am not so sure he deserved a peerage (but then, to be fair to you Alan, I would happily abolish the peerage system and the monarchy altogether)!
Alan
Monday Dec 10, 10:17
Dave, come on.... you can't get rid of the Queen... that would leave Gordon Brown as Head of State!!! He can't even run the country, let alone represent it at that level!!
Dave
Monday Dec 10, 10:20
The Queen as head of state is laughable. As for Gordon Brown, he is laughable whatever role he is in!
peter h
Monday Dec 10, 17:48
John Leech HAS defended himself, repeatedly and (in my eyes)successfully, against accusations about lying over Christies, and has even challenged the labour prospective candidate to a public debate on the matter.
As for KB being made a life peer, as Dave said, he was specifically voted OUT of parliament, and it is an insult to the voters of this constituency for their wishes to be ignored. I'm quite sure Mr Bradley could be useful in some role in public life which doesn't fly in the face of the principles of democracy - head gardener at Marie Louise Gardens springs to mind - but he shouldn't have been made a peer.
Yasmin Zalzala
Monday Dec 10, 23:04
Dave, Alan & All
Personal insults are not going to have any effect on me so save your breath.
As for claiming that the christie hospital campaign is not relevant anymore as we have other things in mind, that will not do either.
The significance about the Christie Campaign is that it means that John Leech & co had no evidence to support their claim. It was a scare tactic to win votes. In other words it was a lie.
That is significant. Because it shows form. It shows willingness and readiness to lie to the electorate and the people.
If this is allowed to continue, then how do we know future claims from John Leech or other Lib Dems are not equally untrue?
Peter H, if in your eyes John Leech has proved himself then bully for you. But please don't attach others are not so convinced. We live in a democracy.
Dave
Wednesday Dec 12, 09:48
Sorry if you feel that I have given a personal insult to you Yasmin, it wasn't my intention. I was merely pointing out that hoax/lies have cost millions of tax payers money, deaths of British and Iraqi people (and countless other nationals), destroyed an infastructure of a country or got some local media coverage and a few people annoyed.
And if you really think Leech won, purely on the whole Christies issue then you are deeply mistaken. I am still to meet someone who had previously voted Bradley, who was swayed by the Christies issue into voting Leech. Leech mainly got such a big swing from Labour to Lib Dem on the basis that the vast majority wanted Labour out as a direct response to the invasion of Iraq. I do not have much money, but if anyone ever did carry out research into why people voted for Leech having voted for Bradley before, I would be willing to place a substantial bet on the outcome being over Iraq and not over Christies!
peter h
Wednesday Dec 12, 20:05
thank you dave.
You're right about christies. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, it was a marginal issue to everybody except a few labour activists (and Yasmin apparently) desperate for some sort of handle against Leech in the absence of anything substantial as they realised they were in danger of losing the seat.
The reasons as we saw it for John getting in - and "we" means myself and a good number of other disenchanted labour voters around west didsbury who switched to john - were (a) overwhelmingly Iraq along with the rest of the country (b) disenchantment with Keith Bradley's half-hearted approach to various local issues we had which would have involved him with standing up to the labour council on our behalf - notably schools issues - (c) the fact that john leech had a long and honourable track record of fighting on our behalf on those local issues, speaking up for us in council, and tirelessly coming to local meetings and being 100% hands on while KB was off playing at being a junior minister.
labour and yasmin do themselves no favours harking on about christies. it's old dead news and of no interest to voters' current thinking. it keeps the contributors here busy perhaps, but it also stops them getting to grips with how to really tackle john leech. As things stand, they arent even close and lucy powell is making no impression whatsoever outside of her own little coterie of supporters. To me it looks like she won't have what it takes, otherwise she'd be making a lot of noise and getting her name known.
Alan
Thursday Dec 13, 07:49
Peter, you talk about Keith 'playing' at junior minister. It seems pretty clear to me that you can't make the distinction between local and national government and the duties of an MP/ cllr. Leech is fundamentally a councillor and he was probably very good at that but as an MP you should be in Westminster for most of the week because the aim is to represent your constituency at parliament. Keith did this exceptionally well adn worked extremely hard. What does Leech do... he still goes to all your precious planning meetings etc and national duties suffer as a result.... I mean what has he really done, on a national level, for Manchester Withington... where are the headlines and the stories... where are the debates?? Or do you feel that signing an extra ordinary amount of EDM's makes him an exceptional MP.
As for Keith becoming a peer... he deserves it. He dedicated 18 years of his life to act as MP for the constituency, he worked extremely hard and thank god he represents the constituency in the Lords because it would seem that the person doing it in the Commons is pants!!
Yasmin Zalzala
Thursday Dec 13, 08:47
As I said before: Claiming that the christie hospital campaign is not relevant anymore as we have other things in mind, will not do.
The significance about the Christie Campaign is that it means that John Leech & co had no evidence to support their claim. It was a scare tactic to win votes. In other words it was a lie. How many votes he won as a result is another matter.
The significance of the christie hospital lie is that it shows form. It shows willingness and readiness to lie to the electorate and the people in a high profile campaign that played on their fears of hospital closure after the loss of Withington Hospital.
As I have said repeatedly, I stayed nutral on the subject and asked for evidence to support the Leech claim. But to my surprise, he has not responded. This proved to me that he has no evidence.
Therefore, if in a few months time there is real danger of a hospital closure, will anyone take him seriously?
On another website, I have demonstrated with factual evidence how John Leech and other Lib Dem Councilors were untruthful to internal party investigations by telling lies about me. This led to the Liberal Democrat hierarchy, led by Chris Renard, the Chief Executive, not to take my complaint of racism seriously and John Leech was installed as the candidate.
So John Leech has form in being untruthful and telling lies to serve his interest.
Is this compatible with the standards of elected people in public life?
Do the people of manchester withington want someone like that for their MP?
I think people deserve to know the truth so that they can make up their own mind.
Dave
Thursday Dec 13, 09:27
Okay, let's go with "Do the people of Manchester Withington want someone like that for their MP"
My question to you Yasmin is this "Do the people of Manchester Withington want Gordon Brown to be the PM of this country?" I would imagine for the vast majority, the answer is "No!". Therefore, who do they vote for at the next general election?
Yasmin Zalzala
Thursday Dec 13, 13:08
Dave I see no relevance to what you are saying to the topic under discussion in this thread.
You seem to be desperate to save john leech, and I have noticed that you are not even trying to defend him from the accusation of lies.
If that is all the defence that he can muster, then he must be in trouble!
Dave
Thursday Dec 13, 14:29
No, I am not defending Leech at all. I am just trying to widen the debate. So, according to you Yasmin, Leech is a liar and can't be trusted. Let's say I agree with you on that issue, who would you personally recommend that I vote in the next general election (assuming I still lived in the Manchester Withington Ward)? The Conservatives, Labour, or someone else?
Yasmin Zalzala
Thursday Dec 13, 16:47
You vote for whom you like.
This is not telling people who to vote for next elections
This is a John Leech Watch
Please widen debate elsewhere
Dave
Thursday Dec 13, 17:21
You are right to point out that this is John Leech Watch, as part of that, surely others should be able to show a real alternative to voting for Leech next time. People on here are very quick to put down John, but they do not give a real alternative to ex-Labour supporters. Yes, a few have whispered Lucy Powells name, but she stands for the Labour party, and since we are in the main ex-Labour supporters/voters why would we go back, if anything since the last election, I less likely to vote Labour.
Alan
Thursday Dec 13, 17:37
Head and brick wall spring to mind!!!!!!
Dave
Thursday Dec 13, 22:00
Ah well, at least I have a fairly decent MP up here. Obviously Yasmin doesn't get where I am going with the point I have tried to make the previous few posts, or is unwilling/unable to answer my questions.
I reckon you'd like it here Alan, previous Tory safe seat, now Lib Dem. The area still has Tory values tucked away, with a few of us lefty-woolly liberals out and about
peter h
Thursday Dec 13, 22:23
Alan! according to this website john has spoken in 64 debates! How can you say "where are the debates?" That's daft.
As for confusing local and national duties, no, I'm not confusing them. A critical part of an MP's function is to represent people when they feel they are being wronged. You go see them and they try to do something bout it. We found Keith Bradley bloody useless on that score when we approached him. We got the impression, rightly or wrongly , that he didnt want to get involved with our grievances to any serious extent, ESPECIALLY if that grievance were directed at his labour colleagues. We may have got him wrong, but that is the impression we got, and , bluntly, it turned us from Labour to Lib Dem voters.
Yasmin Zalzala
Friday Dec 14, 00:17
May be you could start another thread titled 'ex labour voters looking for a home'
This will leave this comment for the watch of cllr john leech mp
Dave
Friday Dec 14, 09:43
Why is it always down to me to start new threads lately (I am saying this with my tongue firmly in my cheek everyone, before you all have a go)
Alan
Friday Dec 14, 09:53
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2007-12-04b.168445.h&m=1707#g168445.q0
Yes, Peter, by this link, he's really making a difference when he does speak in a debate isn't he!! Go John!! Any idiot can stand up and ask a question!! That counts as speaking in a debate! I could go down to the Commons and sk a question!
Sedgelypark
Friday Dec 14, 21:29
Peter, you know what the issue is with Christies which it proves yet again the Fibs will say anything to get elected even to the point of scaring cancer patients waiting for treatment.
Peter, cast you mind to last May when we had Hocus Focus leaflets with rats on the front saying Labour wanted fortnightly bin collections. Never on the agenda and a total lie. I actullay saw the boy wonder out convassing pushing this latest lie. So he has old form and recent form for fibbing.He really has no shame.
On the Lucy Powell I've actually met her Peter unlike you. She is very sharp and articulate candidate who having only met me once remembered my name and put a team of new canvassers at their ease.
Compare this to an inarticulate former councillor incapbale of stringing a speech together and hated ny many of hos own party who can't believe he actually got to Westminister.
She will wipe the floor with him in a debate so she could take him up on his offer.
Yasmin Zalzala
Saturday Dec 15, 01:05
Sedgely Park
Is the labour candidate going to follow in the footsteps of the Rt Hon Lord Keith Bradley?
Yasmin Zalzala
Saturday Dec 15, 23:54
Lying and cheating seems to be the acceptable norm for the Liberal Democrats these days.
Many years ago, longer than I care to remember, I worked as resaerch assistant at a university. I was grateful for the money even if it was not much believing it work benefiting the status of the university.
I was paid with tax deducted at source so it was all legal and above board. However, it turned out that the professor through whom I got the work, was paying me £30 per day for work for which he was charging £1000!
The material at times was sent via me to the client directly so high was my quality record.
When I discovered this and asked for correction, I was told that I could take it or lump it there is nothing that I could do.
I thought fine I will put it down to experience. It was years later that I learned that the learned professor was giving me a bad reference with accusations of theft and embezzlement to cover up what he had done.
He is in the house of lords with the liberal democrats at present!
Dave
Sunday Dec 16, 16:46
Who was it Yasmin?
Yasmin Zalzala
Monday Dec 17, 02:22
I am trying to concentrate on the issue. This is that there is a tradition of lies and deceit among liberal democrats.
I think names will confuse the issue
Dave
Monday Dec 17, 07:35
But why bring up half a story? Go on, tell us who it is, you know you want to!
Alan
Monday Dec 17, 08:04
Yasmin, if you won't tell us what the name then its a non story. I think you just like the attention!
Yasmin Zalzala
Monday Dec 17, 10:01
I have brought the matter to the attention of the 'relevant authority' as they say.
Dave
Monday Dec 17, 15:51
What, is this forum a "relevant authority"?
peter h
Monday Dec 17, 17:32
of course she won't say. It is potentially libellous.
Yasmin Zalzala
Monday Dec 17, 18:45
By relevant authority I mean the leader of the liberal democrats in the house of lords.
And as for libel, the comments are true so they would not be libellous.
The reason I am not mentioning names is because I am concentrating on the issues, which is the streak of lies and deceit by the liberal democrats.
Let us be grown up and move away from sensationalism.
Dave
Monday Dec 17, 19:45
Let's us grow up? So let me get this straight, when I want you to talk about who would be a good alternative to John Leech, you tell me that isn't relevant to this site. When you start some House of Lords Lib Dem peer being this, that or the other, but won't mention names, just how relevant is THAT to John Leech Watch?
Yasmin Zalzala
Tuesday Dec 18, 14:01
Dave
Very relevant.
It shows form for lying, being untruthful etc etc
Dave
Tuesday Dec 18, 14:21
So Alan, Peter, Sedgley, etc, anything you have to say that is as relevant as Yasmin's post, such as how the weather is in Manchester of late; or would you rather go to Skegness or New Brighton for a weekend break; or is organic food really worth paying the premium for; or did you see the X-factor finals, etc, etc
Yasmin Zalzala
Wednesday Dec 19, 00:07
Hi Dave
Here you go again trying to change the subject to save John Leech and the Liberal Democrats in Manchester
Strange that you are so persistent given that you live in Cumbria.
Should you not be worrying about the ethics of the elected politicians in your own area?
Dave
Wednesday Dec 19, 09:37
yasmin, you were the one who wouldn't answer my original question (regarding who I should vote for, if I am not happy with Labour or Lib Dems), so it is you who keeps changing the focus of this discussion.
However, I am polite and therefore, I shall answer your last question. Not only should I be "worrying" about the ethics of my local MP (and he does a sterling job) - and interestingly, I haven't had the chance to vote in local or general elections here in Cumbria yet; but I should also be more worried about John Leech because a) I voted for him and b) regardless of where I live, he is still able to make decisions that could affect my life (just as every other MP and member of the House of Lords in this country can affect my life)
Now will you give me an answer to my question, which I have asked of you 3 times now?
Dave
Wednesday Dec 19, 11:04
In fact, let me make my question easier. If I am not going to vote Leech (or and other lib dem) who should I vote for?
Yasmin Zalzala
Thursday Dec 20, 07:28
Dave
I have answered your question. It is up to you to decide who you should vote for.
This thread is for people watching john leech
Yasmin Zalzala
Thursday Dec 20, 07:52
Dave
How do you know your MP is not a liar etc in private?
Dave
Thursday Dec 20, 09:41
Everyone lies from time to time. I tell my son about Father Christmas. My parents told me lies about there being a God. We went to War in Iraq based on a lie. Yes, my MP may well lie, but he still does a good job.
As for this thread being about John Leech as you rightly pointed out, how come you started some yarn about the House of Lords?
John Holliker
Thursday Dec 20, 15:44
Morning all - just back from two months in Canada..where they don't have the internet.
Peter: You are a sucker for perception politics. Leech may turn up at countless meetings, say the right things, glad hand the locals, but he is a 'chocolate teapot' in terms of effectiveness. We've been over this before and you always fail to give an example of one thing he has brought about locally whilst being an MP.
In the meantime, plans to rebuilt surgeries in the area are at a standstill post-Bradley, the Merseybank shops are still decrepit 10 years on since he promised their overhaul, school renewal schemes are not progress....the man simply hasn't got the kudos to make things happen.
I suppose your reply will be about the Labour Council/Gvmt being culpabale but this comes down to the man's ability to inspire and negotate and as we know, his people skills are not great.
Nice to know he backed the loser in the Lib Dem leadership contets as well...again. Can't wait until February for the next one.
Yasmin: This is tedious. If there was any mileage in your claims they would have stuck by now. They haven't. You got shafted for the candidacy and you're demonstrating the reasons why...your Ali G argument is nonsensical and slightly insulting. You hardly had good form for being a candidate with honesty/integrity during your Old Moat days did you?
Sedgeley: The Labour Party is looking pretty screwed and no amount of barrel chesting will disguise that. They are an embarrassment. Leech will win Withington on an increased majority of circa 1500-2000 next time out.
Alan: Have you bought the new Dire Straits compilation for Christmas?
Yasmin Zalzala
Thursday Dec 20, 18:21
Dave from Cumbria
I think you are argument is getting desperate.
Alan
Friday Dec 21, 10:05
No I prefer Aerosmith!!
Yasmin - Have you ever read any of your posts back to yourself??!! They are confused, irrelevant and make little sense!!
Dave
Friday Dec 21, 11:08
Nope, I am not deperate. More ammused.
Before I forget, I'd like to wish all the contributers on this forum (regardless of political views) a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! I may well post again in the next few days, but I just wanted to give season greeting before I forget!
Yasmin Zalzala
Friday Dec 21, 14:16
Alan
As I said before, personal insults are not going to have any effects. As for your suggestion, you and others might like to apply that suggestion for your blogs.
Dave from Cumbria: Happy Christmas to you too!
Alan
Friday Dec 21, 16:07
Yasmin, if you don't like it then stop talking rubbish!
I won't be posting before Christmas so I'd like to wish Dave, John H, Thomas and Peter a Merry Christmas and have a good New Year!
Yasmin Zalzala
Friday Dec 21, 19:55
Poor Alan, you must be really hurting!
peter h
Saturday Dec 22, 22:35
Nice to see you back Mr Holliker. Trenchant as ever.Oddly enough I accept most of your comments about John Leech, but that is the price one pays for having a lib dem representative in an avowedly labour stronghold like manchester.
He IS often going to be rendered ineffectual sometimes simply because labour is in power locally and nationally and they want his blood.
The way I see it though, the guy is representing us well by standing up and labour isnt just blocking him, theyre blocking the electorate's wishes, and the elctorate will not simply sit back and allow themselves to be bullied/forced into voting labour. They will continue to vote lib dem to show that.
I may be wrong, but I agree with you that JL will come back with an increased majority.
one of the things which really p*sses me off about labour is that in manchester they don't need to listen to lib dem councillors and therefore they don't - effectively disenfranchising lib dem voters. not nice, not democratic.
Yasmin Zalzala
Sunday Dec 23, 17:16
Peter h Regarding John Leech coming back perhaps you could tell us which hospital is he going to save this time from closure?
Dave
Sunday Dec 23, 19:24
Well it won't be Withington Hospital will it? That was closed on Bradley's watch
peter h
Sunday Dec 23, 22:05
perhaps you could tell us which one you'll save from closure, yasmin
Alan
Monday Dec 24, 14:38
See again, you are making no sense... 'hurting about what'??!!
peter h
Monday Dec 24, 18:52
she's on another planet alan.
Yasmin Zalzala
Tuesday Dec 25, 16:57
As I said personal insults will not have any effect.
A word of advise, when in a hole, stop digging
Alan
Thursday Dec 27, 08:54
You should take your own advice Yasmin!! So what is it that I'm 'hurting' from?? If you can't back up and explain what you say then do us all a favour and shut up!!
Sedgelypark
Thursday Dec 27, 22:27
Peter, I finally give up on you as you are such a cretin.
You agree with John H that Leech is useless yet will still vote for him. Pathetic.
Then you say Manc Lab ignores ther Fib Dems...that's politics you halfwit.
If Lab has listened to the Fibs then we would have had no Commonwealth Games becuase they have no vision or politcal backbone.
Just like you so I'm going to ignore you as you are a waste of space.
Yasmin Zalzala
Friday Dec 28, 18:20
Alan
When it starts to get abusive, I know I have hit home
You poor man
peter h
Sunday Dec 30, 18:06
cretin, eh? wow, such incisive wit.
If you want to twist words and then insult somebody for "saying" what they never actually said, then that's your privilege sedgeley. I didn't "agree with John H that Leech is useless". But there again, you know that, don't you?
If you can only argue against what I said by twisting what I said then I must have hit home.
And no, politics is NOT about parties ignoring each other, except perhaps in the sort of single party state you presumably espouse
Alan
Monday Dec 31, 09:07
Ha ha, if you think that's abusive Yasmin then you must have led a very sheltered childhood. I'm not even warmed up yet! Furthermore, as I neither support the Lib Dems, or indeed Labour anymore I fail to see how what you say can upset me. What I am upset about is that your arguments are flawed, your comments are mindless and unfortunately for you, the only one paying any attention anymore is me. Why you ask, let's just say it's in the interest of medical science!
Dave
Wednesday Jan 02, 09:46
Happy New people!
Not got anything else to add that hasn't already been said regarding Leech, Iraq and Bradley, so I shall shut up already!
peter h
Thursday Jan 03, 22:48
don't shut up dave. This is all good stuff. Labour's falling to bits at the top & these guys aren't even talking about it.
Alan
Tuesday Jan 08, 21:46
Labour is, predictably, falling apart under Gordon Brown and his crony cabinet. Bring on the next election!!
peter h
Thursday Jan 17, 14:32
all very true alan.labour doesnt seem to have the fight left to contradict you.
Alan
Tuesday Jan 22, 16:18
Whats increasingly disturbing me is that the govermnet, under Brown, seems to be treating us like complete cretins. It's nanny state to the extreme! As for what is going on with the police and their pay rise, they seem to be going out of their way to upset everyone. Good old Peter Hain throwing his illegal contributions into the mix I'd say they are in for a John Major style ride!
Yasmin Zalzala
Tuesday Jan 22, 21:43
I wouldn't have thought the liberal democrats have that much to smile about?
Dave
Wednesday Jan 23, 12:18
I don't think any of the three major parties have anything to smile about.
As for the handling of public sector pay, well that is another good reason for why I left! I am not saying the police are paid well, however, take a nurse or a teacher, both need a degree for the job, both like to get lots of debt whilst studying, yet they are paid less than a police officer.
Alan
Wednesday Jan 23, 17:00
Dave, understand what you are saying and across the board I believe that public sector pay, especially in nursing and teaching is terrible. However, the way our police officers are being treated is an outrage. Once again Brown's government is treating us all like idiots. In an increasingly violent society and gun crime on the up we ask police officers to work huge amounts of overtime and tend to these crimes unarmed!! Only this weekend someone was shot in the face 200m from my offices for apparently no reason, he'd just gone for some chips!! They deserve a decent pay rise and the fact that they are being screwed over is due to the fact that whil nurses and teachers can strike, police officers cannot! It's appalling and another reason why I won't be voting Labour at the next election!
Yasmin Zalzala
Wednesday Jan 23, 19:49
I totally agree re the police officer pay rise.
But if you will not vote labour because of public sector pay, will you vote Liberal Democrats despite the lie over Christie Hospital?
Dave
Wednesday Jan 23, 19:59
Yasmin, remind of which party hasn't lied recently? And I shall vote for them
Dave
Wednesday Jan 23, 20:02
http://www.labour-watch.com/sleaze.htm
If you click on the link, it appears Labour have a poor record on telling the truth. And the last Tory government was full of liars and sleaze. I think it is time we gave another party a shot in power, and if after four years in office they prove to be no better, then we should vote back in New Tory and the Other Tory party
peter h
Wednesday Jan 23, 22:07
all politicians lie, mainly because they are human beings and all human beings lie.
it's the old story dave. Until we get PR we'll never get governments which have to really respond to people and listen to the opposition
Dave
Thursday Jan 24, 11:04
And PR is a reason to try and get the Lib Dems into power, or at least enough politicans to really give PR a push, since the Lib Dems (and sadly the BNP) are the only parties that really want it in.
Alan
Thursday Jan 24, 18:55
Yasmin, I do not intend this post to be insulting (new years resolution), however, how many times do I have to say that I am not, and never have been a supporter of the Lib Dems or John Leech. I have never, and will never vote for them! So in answer to your question, no I will not vote for john Leech!
Yasmin Zalzala
Thursday Jan 24, 20:51
Colleagues
There is a difference between a political party lying to look good, and a group of maverick politicians/doctors claiming a hospital is in danger of closing knowing fully this is not the case.
Also, to patients who are with life threatening diseases and telling them the source of their cure/treatment is going soon is a filthy dispicable thing to do.
Not all politicians are that low.
John Holliker
Thursday Jan 24, 23:30
Why do the police think they're so poorly paid compared to other public sector workers? Why did I chuckle to myself on the day of the protest when, in Rusholme, I saw a police van parked on double yellow lines for 15 minutes (I have the photograph) and four coppers stuffing their faces in a nearby kebab house, and over the road I saw a blatant drug deal taking place. Reminded me of the coppers in Early Doors...
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